Nicky plays for, and within, the Hervey Bay basketball association. This association has a facebook account. Last week, the president of the association used this page to place a link to a site calling itself the Australian Marriage Forum.I requested that the link be removed because it was inappropriate for a sporting organisation to display political or religious information that is not directly related to the actual sport. To be fair, I did get the reply “your opinion is noted” but the article remained for a while until, at the urging of Pauline as treasurer of the association, and of the VP of the organisation, it was shifted to the personal account of the president where he railed against Pauline and I for being intolerant and discriminatory and compared our request to remove the link as being akin to the actions of Hitler in censoring the press in pre-war Germany.
I have studied this forum at length and have decided that I was wrong. It is I who is intolerant, discriminatory and just like Hitler. Except I don’t like his moustache.
I have not allowed room for people to go off half-cocked about issues that I perceive as restricting the personal freedoms of other people but in truth, this does not allow room for a fair percentage of the population. Thus, I need to learn tolerance myself. I need to stop thinking of them as fundamentalist loonies, racists, or misogynists and come to embrace the fact that it is very much part of the human psyche to deny others the rights that I enjoy if they are different in terms of skin colour, sexual preference, or gender. Until I do, I will continue to frustrate myself by attempting to argue with these folk when in fact I should show more tolerance of their incapacity to reason, of their inability to create a logical and coherent argument, and of their self-contradictory and facile statements. It is OK to make statements that don’t actually make a coherent whole just so long as you use emotive clichés and people know that you are right because you read the bible. The fact that your IQ is equal to that of a turnip is irrelevant and I must start taking these people seriously so that I’m not intolerant any more.
I have learnt all of this from the Australian Marriage Forum website – which calls itself a forum despite the fact that there is nowhere within the site to place a personal opinion. This is obviously a misunderstanding of the meaning of the word “forum”. Thus i sent the following email to the site’s author:
You are aware, are you not, that using the the word forum as a part of the name of your website implies many voices discussing a particular topic?
I have included the following link for the sake of clarity: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/forum
I note that there is, in fact, no section within your website for anybody else’s view but your own.
It is hoped that this situation can be rectified so that others may voice their opinion on this issue.
Regards
Robert Bishop
I am looking forward to the time when the site is changed so that I can discuss some of the statements made or implied on the site.
For instance, the catch-phrase is that they want the conversation to happen – for everyone’s sake. This is accompanied by several flash graphics – my favourite of which is a graphic of a young lady with band-aids over her mouth. I can assume that this means she is not being allowed to talk. It’s either that or she has really bad ulcers on her lips. I hope she doesn’t – the poor girl.
The text on that graphic reads: “Are Aussies really free to talk about same-sex marriage?” Well, obviously Aussies are not allowed to talk on that site – but as I have said above – this will probably be fixed soon. As for a free discussion about the issue; this discussion has been going on for some time in the newspaper that I read every day – Melbourne’s “The Age“. There are 1040 articles on that issue – opinions, news items, and letters from the public. I also read “The Guardian” – it has 11,200 articles. Obviously, such dreadful left-wing liberal newspapers are not presenting the right views and so I understand that Australians are therefore being muted – makes sense. I am a bit confused though – if you google “same sex marriage” and restrict the results to Australian domains, there are about 475,000 results. Since Australians have band-aids over their mouths, I suppose they are restricted to typing articles rather than actually saying anything. Either that or there has been an epidemic of mouth ulcers.
This is quickly followed by a graphic of a rather odd-looking child and text reading “And the kids”. That’s good – it’s always relevant when somebody asks “What about the children?”. You don’t have to be specific about anything – you just need to ask “What about the children?” and you are automatically morally unassailable. It was silly of me not to have read this brilliant observation before and asked myself: “What about the children?”
The last graphic is really nice. It has a picture of two men – nicely separated along a nice big couch – and one man has his hand on the knee of another man. Both are quite good looking and well-dressed so they obviously must be gay. The hand on the knee is a dead give-away. If a friend of mine touched me on the leg, I would know immediately that he was gay and would read Paul’s letters to the Romans and the Corinthians (along with a nice refreshing review of Leviticus) so that I would know what to do. This way I would know that Paul uses homosexuality as indicative of man’s deep seated rebellion against God and that my friend should be cast out and shunned by the community. It’s in the Bible so I know it’s right.
As I read further into forum website, I nodded my head at such sage statements as :” if it is inherently discriminatory to deny marriage to some people, why isn’t it inherently discriminatory to deny marriage to all people? If we redefine marriage to be between two people regardless of gender, why would we not widen the definition even further? What about people who love more than one other person? What about people love each other dearly, but who are related through birth, such as a brother and sister?”
This is true. I would have to marry my children, my parents, my family, my close friends, and my dog! I just can’t afford such a number of weddings. Besides – the honeymoon has the potential to be rather awkward and embarrassing – not to mention crowded. This logical argument has swayed me even further from my silly intolerant views. I have read many “discussion” papers written by Year 8 children over the years and this argument would definitely get a B+ if I was to mark it. That’s a good mark.

Happy normal couples gambol with their kids in Alpine Meadows. Gay Couples don't.
The wonderful concerns that this forum shows for the rights of those silly gay people is underlined by a quote from “Australian human rights lawyer Frank Brennan AO, former Chairman of the National Human Rights Consultative Committee, [is] an expert on discrimination.” It is strange that the quote does not reference the rest of Frank’s speech so that we could read the full context of the selected content. This was obviously overlooked. Another thing that was overlooked was to acknowledge that Frank Brennan is a Jesuit priest. The article acknowledges that he got the Order of Australia at one point but ignores his life’s work by not putting the letters “SJ (Society of Jesus)” after his name. I’m sure that once again, this was just a silly mistake. I’m sure that a Catholic priest of the strictest order within that church would always provide a nuanced and balanced view of such topics.
The website is great in that it has “expert commentary”. They “want to present the voice of the voiceless and the views of those social commentators on this topic who have views that don’t often get seen or heard. [They] have access to academics, doctors, lawyers, scientists and more who contribute thoughts in our blog for your pondering“.
This is wonderful. The voiceless people (maybe they have been shouting a lot?) and social commentators who obviously don’t know how to speak, write letters to the editor, write letters to their MP, or create websites are therefore represented by this wonderful website. This is nice. Also – because the experts are doctors, lawyers and scientists (strangely – nobody is actually named), we should listen to them because they are obviously very smart people. Everybody knows that only smart people are doctors, lawyers and scientists and that their opinion carries great weight. It would be nice to know who they are. Also – pondering is a great word.
“The Australian Marriage Forum (AMF) is an organisation that has been set up to encourage Australians to discuss the issue of same-sex marriage with some discernment and caution.” This is good. We really need to exercise caution. If gay people get married, then this means that hetero marriages are of less value and that any husband and wife who are currently married are now also automatically gay. I think. I’m not really sure about this point. I just know that if gay people get married, it’s a very bad deal for hetero married folk. Just take my word for it – it’s bad.
Discernment is good. We should always be aware of how people are different to us – not how they are the same – that’s just silly and undiscerning. Maybe we need to be cautious that all the gay people will move next door and turn our children gay. Or maybe they will rip apart the fabric of a society so carefully designed by our forefathers into shreds with their loving relationships and their colourful yet stylish clothing.
As for caution, you can never have enough caution. Some people (again – no names – I don’t have to – just take my word for it) believe that caution is the underrated but I’m always very cautious. Caution. It’s good. It means that you distrust change. That’s good. My caution means that I know that if I read enough articles on the web, I will find something clearly indicating that married gay people eat babies. This is OK for me as my children are already teenagers and would be too sweaty and spotty to eat but I understand that we must exercise caution in these things.
“It’s important to note that legislation to support same-sex marriage may have enormous consequences on our culture“.
Indeed it may. The same-sex couples who currently live together all over the nation will have a marriage certificate in their drawer (or even worse, on the wall) and this will change our culture a lot. I mean a real lot. We might no longer be able to make jokes about muff-munchers, arse-bandits, poofters, fudge-packers, and all those other commonly heard expressions about gay people indicative of the culture of gay bashing that is pervasive and prevalent in Australian society. We don’t want that changed.
Deriding gay people is very much part of our Australian culture and an important part of growing up as an Australian male. I learnt this at my Catholic school and so we all continuously ostracised a boy in our year by the name of Tony Grant because he openly acknowledged he was a poofter. Thankfully, Tony understood that the dreadful life choices he made were unacceptable and committed suicide at 21 years old. He is definitely damned to hell because he was gay and because he killed himself. Serves him right. I regret now all those conversations I had with him, trying to understand his point of view, trying to reduce his feelings of isolation, and trying to understand how a person could be gay when all of society stands against them. He was a coward for not changing his ways and finding a nice girl to marry. After all, there are plenty of girls who look just like blokes.
If we accepted gay people for who they are, and allowed them to marry, there would be tremendous changes in Australian society. The website says so. I have been scratching my head to think of how it would change but I know it would dishonour the spirit of Anzac (after all – no Australian soldier would be gay – “Lynchie” who plays football is only a member of the army reserve).
Gay marriage would deface the glorious Australian flag too. The Union Jack and British society are bastions of heterosexual society. After all, they jailed Oscar Wilde. Mr. Wilde never contributed to British culture. His writings may have been witty and insightful but I have no doubt that they must have been stolen from a straight man. Graham Chapman was gay and a founding member of Monty Python – but he often poked fun at religion so he deserved to die an early and painful death with throat cancer. God smote him good.
Most people are convinced – and consistent social and developmental research suggests – that millions of Australian families would be worse off if marriage laws were further diluted.” John Heard, Writer, Academic (Identifying as Homosexual)
John Heard has a law degree and an arts degree so he is obviously an academic. He is also the author of Dreadnought – a blog that explores sexuality from the point of view of a catholic homosexual. His deep-rooted Catholicism and his status as a celibate gay man makes him a role model for the gay community. He also writes articles. All gay people should have the self-discipline to not succumb to their sinful ways that inevitably turn into a massive same-sex orgy of writhing bodies, twisting like so many sensual intertwining snakes… (sorry – got carried away there – you see how gay people influence me to become sexually perverse and full of wanton desires?). Great word – wanton. A homophone – especially considering the topic. Also – how does one “dilute” a law? Add water? Hot air? Also -”further diluted” implies some dilution has already happened. Sadly, Mr. Heard is once again non-specific about his meaning and we cannot bask in his queer-but-it’s-ok-because-he’s-one-of-us wisdom.
Did you know (and you should know from the lovely graphic on the front page with knee-touching men) that not all gays want to get married? Therefore – none of them should be allowed to get married. That stands to reason.
From the ABC’s Hungry Beast (2009): “If more than half of all Australians support same sex marriage, you’d at least assume that gay people would be in favour of it, right? Monique [Schafter] found out this isn’t always the case. She spoke to a selection of gay people opposed to same sex marriage to find out why they held this view.” Everybody knows that if you speak to a selection of any one community, but don’t define the criteria upon which you made your selection, then that selection’s opinion is indicative of the overall communities view on a specific issue.
To put the nail in that coffin, the site’s author then states: “But Monique isn’t alone, and for the record, I sincerely doubt that most Australians believe in “gay marriage,” although I do accept that some polls are laughably unscientific“. The author, whose stance is undoubtedly neutral on the subject, doubts that Australians believe in gay marriage and that all polls indicating the opposite are all laughably unscientific. They disagree with him – so they must be laughable. All polls lie. All of them. Especially the ones with which I disagree.
Eve Tushnet, a self-identified lesbian states: “ Same-sex marriage is just the next step in the divorce culture. The belief that marriage is merely the way that our culture expresses its approval of atomistic adults’ sexual and romantic partnerships isn’t new – it’s the same “me generation” worldview that produced “fatherless America.”
I am not sure how Ms. Tushnet makes the journey from the first sentence to the final conclusion and precisely how a “fatherless America” can be connected to gay marriage but as she is a lesbian that agrees the views of the AMF, then obviously what she says is right. I’m just haven’t figured out what she said yet – but I’m sure that this is because of my intolerance for nonsensical arguments – another deviant flaw in my character that I vow to fix.
It is my contention that some left-wing homosexual activists are hungry for approval, and that they’re consciously or subconsciously trying to mirror traditions.
Nobody should ever seek the approval of society or have a desire to fit in, or be regarded as “normal”. Straight people would not do that – and even if they do – that’s OK because they are normal and everyone knows that gays are not normal and that their fruitless search for the approval of society is a pointless and vain exercise. Thankfully, the lack of acceptance in society does lead to an inordinate suicide rate among young gay people that is not reflected in statistics regarding young heterosexual people. People who are dead cannot get married and so it removes them from the argument. This is good.
Thankfully, the website addresses “What about the children?” – the catch cry of those who are rightly concerned about … well… the children!
Firstly: We would suggest that one of the reasons there is social discomfort with same-sex marriage is because so many people realise the foundational nature of the concept of marriage and the way it is intrinsically connected to the fabric and strength of our society. Marriage is the foundation of our society – it can also be democracy, religion, capitalism, free-markets, language – it all depends on how you are using this wonderful (not hackneyed) phrase (definitely not cliché) in order to shore up your argument. The fabric of our society …. what does that mean? I once thought that the weft and woof of our pluralistic, multicultural society had as many strands as there are cultures, attitudes, and points of view (maybe even sexual preferences?) but I was wrong. The only fabric worth considering are the Judeo-Christian strands and all the others are just wrong. After all – some of the people in our society are not only gay – they are also darkies!
Our society has always recognised this relationship as the unit around which society is built. After all, it’s opposite-sex relationships that produce children, and as children are born, a society grows.
This is good. Our population is now around 7 billion and God will provide for all of them – once they have accepted him as their lord and saviour. Muslims and atheists will have to starve. After all, God only looks after those who say nice things about him at church every week and say lots of prayers to him. He always answers their prayers – even the ones made by parents of children dying in hospitals – but he will ignore all those nasty atheists, Muslims, and all the silly and completely-off-the-mark religions. Serves them right too. Society should keep on growing and using the environment for their own uses – never mind the impact. Genesis says that God made the earth for us to exploit so this is what we should do.
Same-sex relationships cannot produce children. This is not a statement of prejudice or discrimination, simply recognition of the limitations inherent in same-sex relationships.
Wow. Didn’t know that. Did you know that? What about adoptions? Oh – silly me – hetero people raise kids better than gay people. Stands to reason, what with all the orgies and stuff. Of course, loveless hetero marriages, hetero “quickies” at the office Christmas party, or hetero divorces have never impacted negatively on the lives of millions of children. Only gay marriages threaten the happiness of children. Stands to reason, that.
While no one is naively suggesting that opposite sex relationships are always idyllic, there is still a fundamental agreement that this is how our society best works – generationally.
Recognising and legalising gay marriage will mean that hetero couples will never have sex again and there will be no more children. Obviously.
The many things that make it a challenge to maintain strong healthy marriages are not reason to abandon the idea. To legally change what we recognise as marriage and marriage-like relationships is a defining moment for a nation as it is such relationships that we entrust to the next generation.
Sorry, what? I’m sure that this would make more sense if I wasn’t so intolerant.
It’s not wrong, or hateful, or fearful, to want to proceed cautiously and carefully with any changes to the accepted and endorsed family structure. It’s responsible and wise.
Yes it is. It was the same with regards to the civil rights movement in America and apartheid in South Africa. The accepted structure and culture should not be labelled as wrong, hateful, or fearful. It is merely the accepted norm in that society and any changes to people’s preconceptions must be made responsibly and wisely. And slowly – if at all.
Of course, the best wisdom is found in the Bible and we should always follow it’s teachings. I’m not sure Pauline likes the bit about my ability to sell her into slavery to cover any of my debts or the undeniable fact that she is my property. I don’t think my sisters like the bit that says they are the property of my father or if he is dead, my brother and I. So we’ll ignore those bits. I’ll remain healthier that way. There’s also bits about circumcision. Scary – don’t like that bit. There are bits that say I can’t eat pork. I eat ham and cheese sandwiches so I’ll ignore those bits too. There’s also lots of bits about killing the enemies of god but I think the American army has that concept well in hand so I’ll leave that to them. I’ll just pick the bits I agree with and declare them to be the inviolable word of God. The other bits that I don’t like are violable because I said so. You’re allowed to do that you know – it’s like a smorgasbord of traditions – take the bits you like and leave the other bits for the Jews and the millions of other variations on Christianity. Of course, they’re all wrong and chose the wrong bits.
The UN Declaration on the Rights of the Child (PDF 164KB) affirms that a child must not, “save in the most exceptional circumstances, be separated from his mother”, and yet ‘marriage’ of two men and subsequent surrogacy will do exactly that, in a premeditated way. A little girl must live without a mother, purely to satisfy the desire of two men to have a baby of their own. What then of the rights of the child?
The two gay men are being very mean and selfish. The mother probably put the baby up for adoption on the understanding that only hetero couples could adopt the baby. The fact that she was 16, or had been raped, or couldn’t afford the baby, or was so emotionally devastated by the circumstances of her life that she couldn’t face raising a child is all irrelevant – she would have only been thinking about straight couples raising her baby. If she knew it was two queers that were offering her child a loving home and a life where the kid would be doted on and every need would be met, she would still want the baby back. The statement above implies such a situation and therefore it must be true – also it quotes from a UN document and that’s very significant – unless you’re the government of the U.S. or North Korea. Also – surrogate Mums become pregnant without having intercourse with a man and everyone knows that only God is allowed to impregnate unsuspecting young virgins in this manner. It’s a creator’s prerogative.
It also stands to reason that a little girl would never learn how to be more feminine from a gay man. Only a mother can teach her that – so even if the Mum never wears dresses and only wears tracksuit pants and a flannelette shirt – she would be a better role model than any nasty gay man – no matter how stylish his wardrobe. Funny thing is – the statement only talks about little girls. It doesn’t tell me what to think about little boys so it must be OK for gay men to have little adopted boys. I’m not sure. I’d ask on the forum but there is no way to post a question.
So, in conclusion, I must sign lots of petitions to ban gay marriage because I am perfectly entitled to foist my views on anything onto other people and thus force them to live in a manner of which I approve. I am not restricted just to voicing an opinion, I have to make sure everybody else lives according to my opinions. The fact that these opinions are based on my selective reading of the Bible – which we all know was the word of a God who just has a poor idea of timing. He made lots of appearances to a bronze age society of goat-herders but hasn’t been seen since. This is a pity because now he could now do a talk-show live via satellite and really get his message across. He might even give Letterman a run for his money. Silly deity.
I am not intolerant of other people any more; I just know that I am right and that the constitution says I’m right (well – not really – it’s very ambiguous but it sounds pompous and makes people think I’ve read it), and that our forefathers made the country the way it is because they were much wiser than any of the following generations – especially the current generation of young people (they don’t respect their elders and they are terribly naughty all the time with their noisy cars and crazy hair styles).
Change is bad because I am scared of change.
And finally, won’t someone please think of the children?